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Author Topic: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...  (Read 1086 times)
attackrabbit
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Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« on: June 13, 2008, 08:04:58 AM »

78 Rabbit, CIS, 1.6L

Facts:
*Doesn't "do it" when it's cold.
*Seems to "do it" when under load most (going up a hill etc).
*Sputters a small bit while at idle, there is a 'hic during idle that is rhythmic.
*WOT leads to TONS of hesitation but car does eventually accelerate.
*Is worse at times but less at others.

What I've done thus far that's probably not related:
*Replaced fuzebox.
*Replaced sparkplugs.
*Replaced wires.
*Replaced cap/roter.
*Replaced oil.

What i've done in trying to fix this or like issues:
*Replaced primary fuel filter.
*Replaced fuel pump.
*Replaced thermal timing switch.
*Replaced injectors/seals.
*Replaced warmup regulator.
*Replaced Air Filter.
*Cleaned Fuel distributor.
*Replaced all available vacuum lines and everything is now hooked up!
*Timed the vehicle.

...about the only thing I haven't done is the EGR.  Duff mentioned it might be a mix issue on the fuel distributor?  Fuck, I've always been scared shitless to play with the mixes on there. 

Does anyone have any ideas?  I've quite seriously built this car from the ground up and would so hate to have to bring it into a mechanics shop to ask for help :(
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 02:00:38 PM by attackrabbit » Logged

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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 08:47:41 AM »

From just reading the title, here's my advice. Just talk to her dude, it's only a broad, the worst thing that will happen is she says "no."
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attackrabbit
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 08:52:35 AM »

From just reading the title, here's my advice. Just talk to her dude, it's only a broad, the worst thing that will happen is she says "no."

Hahah, thanks!  Good advice, but I think I'm going to stick with slipping GHB in her coke and waiting till she's asleep like I usually do.
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 04:57:20 PM »

condoms, candy, flowers, ghb = things u take on a date

did u check tming? both the cam timing and igniton? i had a rabbit last week a good 2teeth off behaving like this, reset cam timing and wow it was magilcy better
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 03:43:09 PM »

CIS meter air boot and TB boot?
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2008, 05:33:06 AM »

did you check the contact points?
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attackrabbit
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2008, 07:23:52 AM »

did u check tming? both the cam timing and igniton? i had a rabbit last week a good 2teeth off behaving like this, reset cam timing and wow it was magilcy better

I haven't changed the cam timing, do you think that it could just "meander out"?  The car wasn't doing this issue a couple months ago.

CIS meter air boot and TB boot?

I suppose that's a possibility.  They look good but leaks could be anywhere.  I have spares so will swap those over.

did you check the contact points?

I didn't cause I replaced them when I started work on the car, who knows, I'll check em again!

Thanks a bunch for the responses guys!!!  My adventures into "non-carb'd land" have been treacherous!
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2008, 09:12:39 AM »


I suppose that's a possibility.  They look good but leaks could be anywhere.  I have spares so will swap those over.

I didn't cause I replaced them when I started work on the car, who knows, I'll check em again!


So they're new?  Not likely the problem, but sounds to me like a vacuum leak somewhere.  Have you chased for leaks with either a propane bottle of brake clean?
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2008, 09:18:43 AM »

So they're new?  Not likely the problem, but sounds to me like a vacuum leak somewhere.  Have you chased for leaks with either a propane bottle of brake clean?

The contact points?  Replaced.  The boots?  They aren't new but they are much newER and look it externally. 

I got this post to my same query on the whoretex:

Quote from: MrWizard
Sounds like a vacuum leak, I got tired of chasing down mine.  So I deleted EGR system etc. The vacuum line you need to keep is the one to the spark dist (spark advance). I used various bolts and hose clamps to seal off the lines from the intake manifold and intake boot, vented valve cover to atmosphere and filled the hole into the air filter housing with silicone.

Yours sounds quite large though, maybe intake boots, the air filter housing, axillary air regulator (behind head below intake manifold)

(my reason being, its not doing it when its cold which would be when your cold start injector is running, seems fine at this point as its compensating for you not having enough fuel. It there is a vacuum leak the fuel plate doesn't rise and fall appropriately to throttle position.)

If you do decide to **** with the fuel dist.  check out Timbo's tech pages on vintage watercooleds

It's pretty much GOT to be a vacuum leak at this point as I've replaced/fixed most everything having to do with fuel.  The rationale sounds sound.  I'm going to swap the boot first then think about deleting my EGR and check the auxillary air regulator...
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2008, 10:50:46 AM »

Um...cold start valves ONLY spray during startup (ie cranking), they don't do anything else any other time but hang out. 

I was talking about the intake and TB boots, I've had perfectly good looking ones cause issues.  Especially cause you say it acts up depending on if the motor is loaded (engine torquing, pulling on the boots)
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2008, 10:56:19 AM »

Um...cold start valves ONLY spray during startup (ie cranking), they don't do anything else any other time but hang out. 

Roger that, I'm a FI newby :).

I was talking about the intake and TB boots, I've had perfectly good looking ones cause issues.  Especially cause you say it acts up depending on if the motor is loaded (engine torquing, pulling on the boots)

That's what I figured you were talkin' about.  That's a quick fix, I'll swap those when I get home and see how it goes.
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2008, 08:50:18 PM »

Timing - Mine behaved identically and even though I was damn certain I had timed it right, I had the crank retarded two teeth from everything else.

Alternately, check your cold-start air bypass valve. I had one that had cracked in half at the seam and would sometimes suck itself back together. Caused an intermittent version of what you're describing. I always remove them and plug both hoses after that experience.
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attackrabbit
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2008, 09:38:52 PM »

Timing - Mine behaved identically and even though I was damn certain I had timed it right, I had the crank retarded two teeth from everything else.

Alternately, check your cold-start air bypass valve. I had one that had cracked in half at the seam and would sometimes suck itself back together. Caused an intermittent version of what you're describing. I always remove them and plug both hoses after that experience.

Swapped the boots and EGR, problem persists but is less.  I found a gaping hole behind the boot at the TB so I'm sure that was part of it.  Car doesn't lurch as hard now - it's just a super bad sputter that doesn't allow me to accelerate or run right still - when warm (which is super frustrating since the car runs LIKE A FUCKING DREAM when it's cold).

Perhaps it is Timing.  I must admit - I don't fully understand how to be a tooth out.  You mean on the flywheel/I'm going to have to pull the trans again, rotate the flywheel a couple teeth and reinstall?
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2008, 06:20:18 AM »

No, the flywheel is keyed into place by means of offset bolts.  The tooth off is refering to the timing belt.  I'd double check the timing.

So now it only stutters when warm?  I think you said you already changed the warm up regulator in the fuel system?  That's an odd one.
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attackrabbit
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Re: Need help diagnosing sputtering/hesitation issue...
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2008, 07:27:30 AM »

No, the flywheel is keyed into place by means of offset bolts.  The tooth off is refering to the timing belt.  I'd double check the timing.

So now it only stutters when warm?  I think you said you already changed the warm up regulator in the fuel system?  That's an odd one.

Alright, that makes more sense.  I did change the warm up regulator.  Yep, only when warm, man it's frustrating.  I'll hit it again with the timing light and then try to make sure it's not a tooth off (Bentley here I come).

BTW - it was a RIDICULOUSLY awesome night last night for riding the bike  thumbsup
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