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Author Topic: Fuel injection hates me... Help?  (Read 519 times)
attackrabbit
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Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« on: November 25, 2007, 03:54:15 PM »

Alright, I bought a 78' Rabbit for $400 that ran, albeit shitty and had some small things wrong that I should be able to fix fine myself.

One of the things that looked messed up was pretty well everything having to do with the fuel lines/fuel injection components etc were rusty, bigtime.

So, I had some parts from the bitch basket that were left over and looked great so, I replaced them, all.  Leaving the original injectors.

No start.

Engine cranks and cranks...

Called Tim, Timeh suggested that the newer fuel distributor had a sensor (I can't remember what it was called) that sounded like it had to do with fuel timing and suggested switching back to the old fuel distributor.

I unbolted the lines, all seemed to have fuel pressure because half of them squirted in my various eyes.  What is odd...  Is when I pull an injector and crank the motor - they don't squirt.

btw - the bitch basket ran great and I mean GREAT before I took it apart!

So, here are the stock parts that I'm currently using:
*the line from the center of the fuel dist to block.
*fuel distributor.

Here are the parts off the bitch basket I'm using:
*fuel lines.
*bottom box.
*fuel filter (big one close to the distributor).

New parts I'm using:
*air filter.

I'm seriously pissed that I brought a working vehicle into my garage and now it's a nonworking vehicle.  That's never happened before when I wasn't planning on making it a nonworking vehicle.  I admit I know nothing of fuel injection but decided to jump in both feet first (is there any other way to go?).

*sigh*

...now when you crank on it, it backfires out the airbox over and over but doesn't ever kick over.

Any ideas?
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attackrabbit
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2007, 04:00:47 PM »

Also note that my brother replaced the spark plugs/wires during this entire process...  Could a firing order be causing this too?  I think it's 1-3-4-2.
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Nuno
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2007, 04:06:59 PM »

IF you have fuel delivery and checked.

Sounds like a timing issue.

Hall sender?  what dizzy do you have?
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2007, 04:20:06 PM »

backfiring thru the intake sounds like a timing issue.  I'd confirm the plug wires are in the correct order and the engine is timed.  1342 is correct.
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2007, 04:33:31 PM »

With both shafts lined up is the rotor lined up properly?
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attackrabbit
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2007, 04:49:49 PM »

IF you have fuel delivery and checked.

Sounds like a timing issue.

Hall sender?  what dizzy do you have?

The only checking for fuel delivery is that the injectors look wet when pulled.  No idea on what type of dizzy I have.  Seems to be stock for this little 1.6L 78' rabbit.  I'll visually check that the hall sender is still plugged in :).

Actually, I don't think this distributor has a hall sensor on it.  All I can see is a condenser on the dist.

backfiring thru the intake sounds like a timing issue.  I'd confirm the plug wires are in the correct order and the engine is timed.  1342 is correct.

Welp, checked and the firing order is right...  Damnit.

With both shafts lined up is the rotor lined up properly?

...um, I don't know?  Shaft lines?  I'll check to see if the rotor is on proper...
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2007, 04:53:16 PM »

Actually, I don't think this distributor has a hall sensor on it.  All I can see is a condenser on the dist.

check for power at the green line to condenser 
check the gap  downtown
check for spark from the coil wire (close to bare metal) 
if its a go..check for spark from plug wires.

 
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attackrabbit
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2007, 05:14:29 PM »

Ugh, found the problem...  When little brother was putting on the wires/cap, he didn't do it one for one...  But...

What is odd is that the firing order is right, it's just two places around the cap from what it is on say, his car or my other rabbit.  Odd.  I don't know why that makes a difference but apparently it does.

Now I'm back to part of the original problem in that the car can/will start and will run if you give it gas but doesn't like to keep running when cold.  Keep your foot giving it food for a minute and it runs fine.  I replaced the cold start valve with the one off the bitch basket but the problem persists. 

BTW - thanx Nuno and Tim.  Nuno, get your ass out here, I owe you some moose meat :) - Tim, drive up :P
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 05:20:37 PM »

Won't idle cold?  BUt runs fine when warmed up?  Sounds like an aux air regulator valve.  Or a cracked boot on the CIS unit or TB.  THe cold start valve ONLY comes into play during cold starts WHILE the engine is cranking.  Also look for vacuum leaks, a cold engine is very temperamental to vac leaks.
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2007, 05:24:48 PM »

Cold start injectors?

Fuel injector rings?

Aux air reg?
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attackrabbit
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 06:04:47 PM »

Won't idle cold?  BUt runs fine when warmed up?  Sounds like an aux air regulator valve.  Or a cracked boot on the CIS unit or TB.  THe cold start valve ONLY comes into play during cold starts WHILE the engine is cranking.  Also look for vacuum leaks, a cold engine is very temperamental to vac leaks.

Cold start injectors?

Fuel injector rings?

Aux air reg?

Thanx fellas, sorry for all the questions, I've been a carb guy all my life so this is a world of wonder  :joel:

I'll check those things, pretty sure there are some vac leaks, injector rings are new.
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2007, 06:27:20 AM »

You can get new boots (last i checked?) for pretty cheap for both the TB and the CIS box... might want to look into that? Plus new vacuum hoses are pretty cheap as well, worth replacing. Nothing worse than springing a vacuum leak randomly due to a cracked hose somewhere random. They can be a real pain in the ass.

Does sound like a vacuum leak to me... make sure that your injectors are fully seated too, it can be easy to think they are all the way in and they aren't. I've always used a screw driver and a hammer to lightly seat them - never had any issues with that.

Tim, you think it could be a mixture issue he is having? I never really understood how mixture stuff worked but I had some of the same problems with my rabbit last time I drove around in it. Probably vacuum stuff.
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attackrabbit
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2007, 08:27:08 AM »

You can get new boots (last i checked?) for pretty cheap for both the TB and the CIS box... might want to look into that? Plus new vacuum hoses are pretty cheap as well, worth replacing. Nothing worse than springing a vacuum leak randomly due to a cracked hose somewhere random. They can be a real pain in the ass.

I think the boot is solid, it looks pretty new and there is a hoze which connects near the tbody but I plugged that, so I think we're good there.

I checked over it and I can see three shredded vacuum hoses and I also found another surprise...  A quarter of a dime sized hole in the intake manifold.  Hmmm - damnit.

Does sound like a vacuum leak to me... make sure that your injectors are fully seated too, it can be easy to think they are all the way in and they aren't. I've always used a screw driver and a hammer to lightly seat them - never had any issues with that.

I figured out the screw driver thing and I set up a piece of metal on the intake manifold (no, not causing the hole haha) to use as a lever to put more correct directional force on the injectors.

Tim, you think it could be a mixture issue he is having? I never really understood how mixture stuff worked but I had some of the same problems with my rabbit last time I drove around in it. Probably vacuum stuff.

Yea, not a pro at that, read how it works in the bentley and other ways on how to adjust mix but it all seems rather unscientific...
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2007, 02:32:37 PM »

Unless the mixture screw has been messed with prior DO NOT TOUCH IT.  They rarely need any attention, especially with a stock motor.  I'd vote vacuum leak.  Are the boots shiney and soft?  If not, just replace them, they're cheap.
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attackrabbit
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Re: Fuel injection hates me... Help?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2007, 04:14:17 PM »

Unless the mixture screw has been messed with prior DO NOT TOUCH IT.  They rarely need any attention, especially with a stock motor.  I'd vote vacuum leak.  Are the boots shiney and soft?  If not, just replace them, they're cheap.

They really are, noted on the mixture screw :) - I'll replace the hashed vacuum lines and hole'y intake and see where that gets me...
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