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hope they dont get a house on the strip next year
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My thoughts '08.
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Topic: My thoughts '08. (Read 780 times)
Tibber
Greek God of Drunken Shenanigans
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1514
My thoughts '08.
«
on:
September 03, 2008, 05:00:21 AM »
I truly believe we’re on a fast tract to bigger government (and it scares the shit out of me) in this next election but I pose this argument to you. This argument is directed to our current candidates and the generation that is ready to lead our country; the baby boomer generation. To them I say, you’ve left us with nothing.
*(I’m not referring to the exact ages of Senators Obama & McCain but rather to generation that is leading us which is technically that of “baby boomers.”)
The World War II generation built and invested in this country from scratch. The baby boomer generation that followed did nothing but consume all that was provided for them. I believe that the result is the deteriorating dollar and an aging, failing infrastructure. It appears this country is hell bent on destroying itself by placing all the blame and responsibility on the government rather than mimicking the success of this country in a post World War environment. While the government would love for you to believe it had everything to do with the rebuilding of this country, I think it’s clear that the success began with the beliefs, funding and investing by people in the very programs.
Whatever happened to people being self sufficient, self reliant and investing in each other? It’s fucking pathetic that we’ve let our generation (yes, 20 & 30 years olds) do nothing more than copy our parent’s example and continue to play “the blame game.”
We we’re all quick to blame President Bush and the oil companies for the, nearly tripled gas prices. We blamed the government when the housing market collapsed but wanted no responsibility for our own actions. I believe to a certain degree, homeowners may have been “duped” into buying over their means, but in all honesty; Did you really need that $400k house, $50k 8/mpg SUV, and $5k big screen TV on an annual, combined income of $80k? I don’t feel sorry for any of them.
The war? Well, truthfully, I haven’t quite put all the pieces together as it sure is a cluster but I believe a major factor was our own consumption contributing to deteriorated resources and skyrocketing prices. That is, provided the sole reason we went to war was for oil which I'm not 100% sure is the case.
Some might say that I’m guilty of playing the blame game by what I’ve said but I’m man enough to admit I can often get caught up in society’s over indulging and over consuming. I truly believe, though, if we want change in this country it starts with ourselves, our lifestyles and our ability to live with in our means. “We’re all in this together” has become nothing more than a cool, cliché phrase to fake patriotism while we do nothing to actually support the idea of being an American.
Hey, if it means I have to start by giving up a rather unnecessary and expensive hobby in selling my Rabbit so that I can properly support a family, invest/consume within the American economy and retire at a comfortable age, then I’m all for it. Sure, I’m being somewhat dramatic, but the idea isn’t far fetched.
«
Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 05:41:27 AM by Tibber
»
Logged
dt | Celtic FC
One day my Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.
Pickle
Demonic Horde
Wonders what it's like outside
Posts: 13809
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #1 on:
September 03, 2008, 05:32:42 AM »
Lot of good points.
I'm lucky I bought a house I could (barely) afford when I did, a year later I was priced out of the market.
Logged
"The very existence of flame-throwers, proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, `You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, I'm just not close enough to get the job done.'" - RIP G.C.
nickfocus
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Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1176
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #2 on:
September 03, 2008, 07:35:39 AM »
the internet ruined everything.
seriously.
i really believe it all falls back to the migration of the population from cities and towns to the suburbs. when every american decided he/she wanted their own little .5 acre slice of the american dream, everything started to collapse. it started a throwaway culture. without a solid community to re-invest in, their money started going elsewhere. why should we support the corner grocery store at the end of the block when we can just drive 10 minutes to mega wally mart and save 50 cents on that jar of pickles. nevermind that you're spending 5 bucks just to drive there alone.
i was big into kunstler (
http://www.kunstler.com
) a couple years ago and still think he's got a lot of great ideas. his books are pretty good reads. of course not everyone can just pack up and become a self sustaining farmer nor should they have to. but i think the tide is turning a bit on the over consumerism and waste ( at least in philadelphia). the whole buy fresh, buy local movement has really blown up over the past few years and it's even starting to creep into the bigger supermarkets where you can now find whole sections devoted to local produce and farm raised meats from the region. i think this highlights a shift in the mentality that we need to support our local economies as it directly affects us.
i'm definitely with you in thinking that the people affected in the mortgage collapse are fucking morons. you can't figure out how to write up a budget? please.
the war is a clusterfuck. 1 BILLION dollars a day and 4100+ soldiers lives to "liberate" a country that doesn't want us there in the first place. and we can't even develop a proper support system for the returning soldiers who are injured and try to fuck them out of any kind of pension we can. it's like these assholes (congress, gov't, whoever) just blocked a little skirmish known as VIETNAM out of their history books.
the election is a circus, it may as well be TMZ.com
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Krauthammer
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Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1395
Yid Skidder
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #3 on:
September 03, 2008, 08:05:58 PM »
Hmm.
"They" may not have left "us" anything, but its actually up to us to wake the fuck up.
And judging by my observations from living amongst these fucking retards I'm forced to call "my" generation, it'll never happen.
The only hope is that enough people wake up just enough to prevent more of the same bullshit thats been going on since 2000. If it happens again, we are soo fucked, and the damage will be beyond the point of no return.
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Go Blue!
highme
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1958
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #4 on:
September 03, 2008, 11:40:54 PM »
Before I start, please let me be absolutely perfectly clear (if it's not a foregone conclusion) where my allegiances lay. I personally feel that this election is a make or break event for our county's history. I deeply fear that if the Republican party, especially it's current incarnation, is allowed to regain control of the Executive Branch, our grand experiment will be concluded a failure.
Quote from: Tibber on September 03, 2008, 05:00:21 AM
Whatever happened to people being self sufficient, self reliant and investing in each other?
That, um, is kind of a center pillar in the Obama platform. Change doesn't come from the top down, it comes from the bottom up. If we take responsibility of our own lives, then help those in need (i.e. invest in each other) we can go along way to solving the problems we face.
Quote
We we’re all quick to blame President Bush and the oil companies for the, nearly tripled gas prices.
I'm not quite sure who you think should be held accountable for the nearly tripled gas prices. I don't believe that President Bush is a conniving figure who, with the help of Dick Cheney, orchestrated the whole Sheleighleigh's. But his foreign policy hasn't been much of a stabilizing force in the world, and lots of related blunders have given the petroleum industry reasonable cover for rising prices. Admittedly, it's a complex situation with answers I'm not knowledgeable enough to provide (if I could I'd be making much more money.)
Quote
We blamed the government when the housing market collapsed but wanted no responsibility for our own actions. I believe to a certain degree, homeowners may have been “duped” into buying over their means, but in all honesty; Did you really need that $400k house, $50k 8/mpg SUV, and $5k big screen TV on an annual, combined income of $80k? I don’t feel sorry for any of them.
Shortsighted buyers (homeowners and investors alike), deregulation, and market dynamics are equally to blame for the housing debacle. A) It was just part of the cycle. Unfortunately since the peak was so high, the valley has been near bottomless. B) the extreme nature of the cycle was a direct result of deregulation of the mortgage industry. All of the sudden it was really easy for banks to sell money to people they probably shouldn't have. All of the sudden, those people who didn't read the fine print find out that their mortgage is about to double and triple per month and can't make payments. C) people who finance their McMansion, Escalade, 50" flat panel, and the rest of their toys, on 80k a year are fucking morons.
Quote
The war? Well, truthfully, I haven’t quite put all the pieces together as it sure is a cluster but I believe a major factor was our own consumption contributing to deteriorated resources and skyrocketing prices. That is, provided the sole reason we went to war was for oil which I'm not 100% sure is the case.
It can't be 100% about oil when so much of it was military dick waving.
Quote
Some might say that I’m guilty of playing the blame game by what I’ve said but I’m man enough to admit I can often get caught up in society’s over indulging and over consuming. I truly believe, though, if we want change in this country it starts with ourselves, our lifestyles and our ability to live with in our means. “We’re all in this together” has become nothing more than a cool, cliché phrase to fake patriotism while we do nothing to actually support the idea of being an American.
Hey, if it means I have to start by giving up a rather unnecessary and expensive hobby in selling my Rabbit so that I can properly support a family, invest/consume within the American economy and retire at a comfortable age, then I’m all for it. Sure, I’m being somewhat dramatic, but the idea isn’t far fetched.
Honestly, I don't see where selling your rabbit and giving up on your hobby is required to participate. By spending money on it, you're still participating in the economy. Following the "buy local" ideal that Nick was talking about will be more influential on society in general than selling your car.
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Tibber
Greek God of Drunken Shenanigans
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1514
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #5 on:
September 04, 2008, 05:41:54 AM »
Quote from: highme on September 03, 2008, 11:40:54 PM
Before I start, please let me be absolutely perfectly clear (if it's not a foregone conclusion) where my allegiances lay. I personally feel that this election is a make or break event for our county's history. I deeply fear that if the Republican party, especially it's current incarnation, is allowed to regain control of the Executive Branch, our grand experiment will be concluded a failure.
Let me be clear where my political views lie. I don't like either party. Shouldn't government be about focusing on the issues as they come up rather than the bickering of party platforms and views? Seems both are 100% guilty, even in the upcoming election. Now, I couldn't agree more with the fact that current Republicans in the executive branch have absolutely falied us in the last 4 years.
Quote
That, um, is kind of a center pillar in the Obama platform. Change doesn't come from the top down, it comes from the bottom up. If we take responsibility of our own lives, then help those in need (i.e. invest in each other) we can go along way to solving the problems we face.
And I agree with Obama's views on this but not all Democrats feel and react that way. Look, my bias comes from my local and state taxes in a state dominated by Democrats in office for some, well I can't remember when the Republicans or an Independent were in the majority. It's a skewed view but it's a fact. They've consistently raised taxes, yet never balanced or stuck to a budget. Now, I will give 100% credit to Gov Jon Corzine for his recent state budget cuts. I think he's on the right track to helping out New Jerseyans. I just hope they can stick to their guns and we don't get screwed in the long run. The only problem with his cut budget is now local legislators are proposing local tax increases. Minimal but if it helps to balance the spending in, historically, one of the most corrupt states politically, then I'm willing to pay my increased portion. But I think you can understand my thought process, I'm worried it will work and feel I have every right to be skeptical based on history until it works.
Quote
I'm not quite sure who you think should be held accountable for the nearly tripled gas prices.
Every American that owns an automobile. I'm not saying that we shouldn't own autos but don't you think we became pretty fucking complacent with the fact that we were using and abusing gasoline as if it was endlessly renewing itself. C'mon now. No one person was to blame for that but we like to think that the people that go through the trouble of providing this service or invest in the service should be the ones to blame. It's bullshit. This issue hits home with me especially as I work for a utility. People take for grant it how much energy, process, and expense goes into providing something "as simple" as electricity. And of course, who's to blame when rates go up or the lights go out? You guess it. John Q public hangs the utility out to dry. I'm tired of our rate of consumption and lack of paitence and stability in absolutely everything we do as Americans. Now, the flip side as I may negate my arguement is that I agree, the general public got absolutely screwed in the last two years at the crazy rate of increase. If anything we should be paying half of what we do now but, you may hate me for being cynical, but did it wake us the fuck up and alert us to our over consuming, destroying the planet, etc etc etc. ??
Quote
But his foreign policy hasn't been much of a stabilizing force in the world, and lots of related blunders have given the petroleum industry reasonable cover for rising prices. Admittedly, it's a complex situation with answers I'm not knowledgeable enough to provide (if I could I'd be making much more money.
With the fact that Bush is as good as clarifying himself as a drunken 10-year old, paired with his inability to listen to anyone's advice, and increased media flaming; President Bush has put the United States in hot water. I wish I knew more as well on where it all went wrong but I still believe a percentage of the petroleum (since you got all technical on me
) rates increase was due to our rapid, increased consumption. It came back to bite us in the ass no doubt and it pisses me off that those in that industry struck it rich. We failed as human beings, not just Americans, to seek alternative sources and methods to decreasing our rate of consumption and reducing our carbon footprint in the last 20 years (ie. my arguement about the Baby Boomer generation). I think we should sacrafice the idea of wanting cheaper gas and to get used to the idea of paying some $4 or 5/gallon but in the meantime decrease the actual cost of producing gasoline and reduce our consumption. We should be using that 50% of the $5/gallon to invest in the alterantive energy sources.
Quote
Shortsighted buyers (homeowners and investors alike), deregulation, and market dynamics are equally to blame for the housing debacle. A) It was just part of the cycle. Unfortunately since the peak was so high, the valley has been near bottomless. B) the extreme nature of the cycle was a direct result of deregulation of the mortgage industry. All of the sudden it was really easy for banks to sell money to people they probably shouldn't have. All of the sudden, those people who didn't read the fine print find out that their mortgage is about to double and triple per month and can't make payments. C) people who finance their McMansion, Escalade, 50" flat panel, and the rest of their toys, on 80k a year are fucking morons.
Quote
It can't be 100% about oil when so much of it was military dick waving.
"Let's go finish daddy's war."
Quote
Honestly, I don't see where selling your rabbit and giving up on your hobby is required to participate. By spending money on it, you're still participating in the economy. Following the "buy local" ideal that Nick was talking about will be more influential on society in general than selling your car.
If you read at the end I said I was being dramatic. My point was that if I can live and consume with in my means, ie. sell my Rabbit as it's "technically" the fourth car that I own, then I think that is a step in the right direction.
For the record, I have a work hybrid Escape that I use 5 days a week, I have my Jeep that maybe gets used twice a week and my wife drives her car some 7 days a week. Plus I have the Rabbit that I'm building. What I'm getting at, is that all really necessary?
I agree with Nick's point about keeping the economy local. I'm lucky enough to have a produce stand and farm next to my neighborhood. I can pretty buy all the essentials at a fraction more than driving down the street, plus the $5 in gas to get there. I'm all about it. I also agree with buying even if it means paying more for products that have "Made in the USA" written on the side. My wife recently gave up her trips to Wal Mart on the way home as I expressed my displeasure with the way they not only rape their workers on a regular basis but the lack of items with the "Made in USA" being sold in their stores.
Logged
dt | Celtic FC
One day my Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.
Tibber
Greek God of Drunken Shenanigans
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1514
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #6 on:
September 04, 2008, 05:55:35 AM »
Quote from: Krauthammer on September 03, 2008, 08:05:58 PM
Hmm.
"They" may not have left "us" anything, but its actually up to us to wake the fuck up.
And judging by my observations from living amongst these fucking retards I'm forced to call "my" generation, it'll never happen.
The only hope is that enough people wake up just enough to prevent more of the same bullshit thats been going on since 2000. If it happens again, we are soo fucked, and the damage will be beyond the point of no return.
I absolutely hate the "doom and gloom" "point of no return" attitude as it's something that I believe is a complete cop-out for never really having or sharing any ideas to create a solution. That's what's wrong with our generation, we look at each other and just assume the other doesn't give a shit, so why should I?
Now, in keeping with my theme of seeing both sides of the arguement. I whole heartedly agree. We live amongst people who'd rather post stupid videos online for 40 seconds of fame on TMZ rather than actually be apart of something.
2000? I think it goes back some more years to say 1996 when a post Cold War popular President took office for his second term. Clinton was good for four years but as what seems to be becoming a popular trend in our leaders, he did nothing but sit on his ass in his second term and it's been the same ever since. GW tried some stuff in his first term as well but did nothing less then shamble up the joint in his second term. Whether it's McCain or Obama, I'm thinking one term might be enough.
Logged
dt | Celtic FC
One day my Ma's relations came round to visit me.
Just as my father's kinfolk were all sitting down to tea.
We tried to smooth things over, but they all began to fight.
And me, being strictly neutral, I bashed everyone in sight.
need_a_VR6
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1046
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #7 on:
September 04, 2008, 07:56:56 AM »
I see this election is going to be a turning point, no matter what. At least people are participating, I see it from all sides for once. People are talking, gathering information, trying to make sense of it all.
We all want change, it's going to happen, regardless of actual outcome.
The thing that is crucial is what happens after the election. Stay engaged, get involved in local issues that might actually effect your every day lives. You have an excellent point, it all has to be ground up. Hopefully this cycle is one of enlightenment in that respect. Hopefully.
In related news, I'm writing in Thomas Jefferson for the third time in a row.
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-Paul
don't forget to simplicate and add lightness
12.833@105.48
KPTuned
Krauthammer
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1395
Yid Skidder
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #8 on:
September 04, 2008, 05:56:22 PM »
Quote from: Tibber on September 04, 2008, 05:55:35 AM
I absolutely hate the "doom and gloom" "point of no return" attitude as it's something that I believe is a complete cop-out for never really having or sharing any ideas to create a solution. That's what's wrong with our generation, we look at each other and just assume the other doesn't give a shit, so why should I?
Good for you, but this isnt doom and gloom. This really is the last chance, right now we're sitting at that proverbial tipping point, like the environmentalists like to say.
If the evangelical right wing McCain/Palin superfuckers win, the damage will be irreversable. At least with Obama there's the chance to
start
bringing this country back from the fuckin toilet. I hate the right with a passion, but if there was actually someone on that side with a fuckin brain between their ears, or some common sense, I'd feel a whole lot better about this election and "reaching across party lines".
Clinton may have sat on his ass, but morale was better, the military interventions were smaller and fewer, and on the whole, the country was doing pretty fuckin alright. He went abroad and people clapped and listened to what he had to say.
The same can't be said right now, and wont under McCain.
Im done reiterating my first post.
«
Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 06:50:12 PM by Krauthammer
»
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Go Blue!
need_a_VR6
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1046
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #9 on:
September 04, 2008, 06:13:10 PM »
I really don't think Mc is an evangelical by any stretch of the imagination.
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-Paul
don't forget to simplicate and add lightness
12.833@105.48
KPTuned
prizice
Demonic Horde
Applebag
Posts: 266
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #10 on:
September 04, 2008, 06:18:06 PM »
I'm voting for secession
Quote
The 400 mile corridor encompassing the area from Vanvouver BC to Portland Oregon has a population of 8 million people and economic output of $250 billion, which would make it the 10th largest economy in the world.
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Krauthammer
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Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1395
Yid Skidder
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #11 on:
September 04, 2008, 06:43:21 PM »
Quote from: prizice on September 04, 2008, 06:18:06 PM
I'm voting for secession
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Go Blue!
highme
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1958
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #12 on:
September 04, 2008, 06:47:09 PM »
Quote from: need_a_VR6 on September 04, 2008, 06:13:10 PM
I really don't think Mc is an evangelical by any stretch of the imagination.
Nope, but he's pandering his flip flopping ass to the evangelicals.
Quote from: prizice on September 04, 2008, 06:18:06 PM
I'm voting for secession
So is Sarah Palin.
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Pickle
Demonic Horde
Wonders what it's like outside
Posts: 13809
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #13 on:
September 04, 2008, 08:29:57 PM »
We better take eastern wasington with us Price, we need to grow some damn food....
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"The very existence of flame-throwers, proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, `You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, I'm just not close enough to get the job done.'" - RIP G.C.
highme
Demonic Horde
Shriveled Applebag
Posts: 1958
Re: My thoughts '08.
«
Reply #14 on:
September 04, 2008, 08:36:35 PM »
Quote from: Pickle on September 04, 2008, 08:29:57 PM
We better take eastern wasington with us Price, we need to grow some damn food....
psssshhh... the Willamette Valley is all the agriculture we'd need.
I read the first half of a book a couple of years ago called Ecotopia that was based on that idea. I couldn't finish the book because it was really bad, so I don't how it ends.
I just looked at the debate schedule and noticed the first presidential debate is Sept. 26th. Am I going to be watching it alone?
«
Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 08:40:46 PM by highme
»
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