Sparky / Electrician advice needed

prizice

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Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« on: August 26, 2008, 11:13:47 PM »

So I need advice from one of you legit electricians...... wave

Tore apart the basement.... While it's apart, I figured I could do a little upgrading and get 220 to the garage

What I have is a small bathroom behind a basement garage. The 220 in the garage won't get used regularly -- but will be there. Since it's not gonna be used all the time like say a dryer, I'd like to consolidate and get the 110 for the bathroom and garage from the 220 circuit. Both the bath & garage will be relatively a small draw -- just a couple of lights, vent fan and outlets.

I know how to get it work with some 6/3 or 8/3 (with ground)-- but I want to make it legit (IE to code).

Can I:

a) Run the 6/3 to a junction box inside the wall and just use wire nuts to split off the two 110 circuits and the 220 outlet in the garage?

b) Run 6/3 to the 220 outlet & run the two 110 circuits off of the connections on the back of the outlet?

c) Get a small breaker box / sub-panel and have breakers for the two 110 circuits and the 220 outlet?

I assume that there is no problem with using a common neutral for the two 110 circuits?

Pic of the project months ago


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BFDeihl

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 02:19:11 AM »

a)--- is a clear code violation which you shouldn't even consider.

b) -- pretty much the same question

c)-- Without getting too far into it-- the whole IDEA of overcurrent protection is to protect the WIRING.

I probably shouldn't be posting drunk, but as it's currently 2:40AM- and I'm on vacation, that's what you get...

(Sober, you'd get the exact NEC references)

There ARE "tap rules" but (if I understand your request) what you are wanting to do does not apply.

To be to CODE-- and (more importantly) to be SAFE-- you WILL need specific overcurrent protection for those 110V circuits feeding off the 220V. While the wiring for a #6 Cu branch is good for at least 55A, most 110V outlets are only rated 15 to 20A..

I hold journeyman licenses in both Washington and Oregon, and am also a licensed electrical administrator in Washington State-- PM me if you want to talk about options..


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Tibber

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 05:08:53 AM »

If I'm understanding it correctly, you want a 120v circuit for your bathroom & garage lighting and leave the 240v outlet for the garage.

Considering it's your house, I never suggest taking the easy way out even though it may work electrically.

Provided you have extra breaker space in your main panel, I would leave a 6/3 dedicated to your 240v outlet in the garage and run a seperate 120v 15A or 20A breaker; 14/2 or 12/2 for the bathroom directly to junction box in which you can split to your GFCI outlet, bathroom lighting, garage, etc. You can also protect your downstream lighting by running the circuit directly to your GFCI first, then run the circuit off the load side of the GFCI.

I don't know NEC without flipping through the book as electric utilities don't have to follow those rules, but I'm pretty sure what I suggested would comply.

I'm used to working with nothing less than 800 Cu. brain damage!


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Staggerlee

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 06:15:39 AM »

Good thing you bought a brick house Price; be a little harder to burn down that way. you're #1!


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Krauthammer

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 04:59:42 PM »

He's gonna blow it up one way or another, might as well point him in the most spectacular direction.


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prizice

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 05:32:49 PM »

Hmmm...... seems that last time that I did 220v wiring with Asp in NoPo I was the one recommending to move the outlet a little bit further away from the spigot for the washer........ House is still standing and nobody's been electrocuted, so all is well yuk

Just wait till I replace the furnace to see the flamethrower i make with the old burner. With all the brick & asbestos it'll be pretty hard to burn down thumbsup

I didn't even think about the fact that any 12/2 110v that I ran would still be connected to a 40a circuit breaker if I did option 1 or 2........ At least I would never kick off the breaker when I plugged in a bunch of lights, air compressors, etc....

Maybe I'll just run two circuits from the main...... plenty of room in the box (new box & wiring to box + 1939 & 1955 wiring in the house so most of the stuff is on 3 breakers.


« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 05:36:42 PM by prizice »	Logged

Staggerlee

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 06:13:30 PM »

Quote from: prizice on August 27, 2008, 05:32:49 PM

........ House is still standing and nobody's been electrocuted, so all is well yuk

That, my friend, is no longer my concern.


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marylandNick

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2008, 01:41:03 PM »

Quote from: Tibber on August 27, 2008, 05:08:53 AM

Provided you have extra breaker space in your main panel

that's why they made tandem breakers as long as your overall load isnt too high you could put a couple of random lights and receps on a couple tandems to make the room for the 240 jams. just takes a little more time with the amprobe....

then again you said you have plenty of room. so knock yourself out. thumbsup


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Krauthammer

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 06:07:59 PM »

Dude, my dad and I ran new power to his shop a while ago...we just pulled it from the house panel, added a breaker box, dug a fuckin trench, and laid out new conduit to the shop. Now he's runnin 480 3 phase out there, and it was just cake.

Whether or not you wanna be "code" jerkoff!

is up to you, but its really not rocket surgery.


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BFDeihl

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 10:59:28 PM »

Quote from: Krauthammer on August 28, 2008, 06:07:59 PM

Whether or not you wanna be "code" jerkoff!

is up to you, but its really not rocket surgery.

Sorry I even mentioned the NEC. Shit, I've only been getting paid for legitimate (read that as LICENSED) electrical work for 21 years-- I guess it's best to "just go for it" cause "the code" is for fags...

I don't do a lot of house wiring, (industrial troubleshooting is my specialty)-- but I would STRONGLY recommend you make any new additions with an eye towards current NEC regs. For those who don't realize-- the NEC (National Electric Code) is a publication from the NFPA (National FIRE PREVENTION Association).

As a result, the "code" keeps getting updated as more and more "freelancers" burn their houses down because they are so brilliant they don't need to bother themselves with correct wiring methods. Afterall, the basic PRINCIBLES are very easily understood. monk

I WILL agree, running conduit and pulling wire isn't a high end science- but at the same time don't assume it's unnecessary to follow code-- your insurance company (or realtor) may beg to differ later...


« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 11:07:41 PM by BFDeihl »	Logged

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Tibber

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2008, 05:12:41 AM »

Quote from: BFDeihl on August 28, 2008, 10:59:28 PM

Agreed. By all means, scab up your house if you want to but don't expect a payday if (God forbid) it burns down for your shortcuts.


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Tibber

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2008, 05:17:15 AM »

Quote from: Krauthammer on August 28, 2008, 06:07:59 PM

is up to you, but its really not rocket surgery.

So if I'm reading that correctly you:

a: Took power from a 120/240v 1ph service house panel and miraculously found a way to get 480v 3ph?

b: Took power from a 277/480v 3ph service to the garage but your dad's house panel has a drypack that steps it down to a usable 120/240v 1ph service?

Either that or your Dad has some big fucking appliances.


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marylandNick

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2008, 02:29:09 PM »

a 3 phase microwave could make your teeth fall out immediately i bet. and you could carve your turkey with a CNC mill.


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prizice

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Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2008, 06:17:24 PM »

Ehh....... I just going to do a 100a sub-panel. With the price of copper it costs the same as running 12/2 across the basement monk

Here's another
Is there any code prohibiting use of PVC conduit indoors, or are you supposed to use strictly metal indoors? Just want to install some extra conduit in case I need to pull more wires in the future.


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Krauthammer

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Yid Skidder

Re: Sparky / Electrician advice needed

« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2008, 10:26:17 PM »

Quote from: Tibber on August 29, 2008, 05:17:15 AM

Either that or your Dad has some big fucking appliances.

yeah, a couple.


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